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Apr
24th, 2005, 06:38 PM |
#1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 14 |
Here is an interesting article I found on hadith on Maula Ali
A.S. with references. The Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) said:
Ya Rasool Allah "Whoever wishes to see Adam in his
knowledge, Noah in his piety, Abraham in his forbearance, Moses in
his strength, and Jesus in his worship and devotion should look at
Ali ibn Abi Talib."Sunni Refernces: 1. al Muhibb
al Tabari in al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 218, 208; 2. al Muttaqi in
Kanz alummal, i, 226; 3. Ibn Abi al Hadid, Sharh Nahj al
Balaghah (Egypt, ed. Muhammad Abu al?Fadl), ix, 168; 4. al
Qunduzi, Yanabi al Mawaddah (Istanbul), p. 214, 312; 5. Ibn
Asakir, Tarikh Dimashq, "Tarjumat al-Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib," ii,
280; 6. Fakhr al Razi, Tafsir, ii, 700; 7. Ibn al Maghazili,
Manaqib, 212; 8. Ibn al Sabbagh al Maliki, al Fusul al Muhimmah,
107. The Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp)
said: "Fourteen thousand years before Adam, upon whom
be peace, was created, I and Ali were a light in the presence of
God. When God created Adam, upon whom be peace, He divided it into
two parts. I am one of the parts and Ali is the other
part."Sunni Refernces: 1. Al Muhibb al Tabari
narrates this tradition on the authority of Salman (RA) from the
Prophet (pbuh&hp) in al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 163: 2. Ahmad
ibn Hanbal in al Fada'il; 3. Sibt ibn al Jawzi in Tadhkirat
AlĀ­khawass, 46; 4. Abu Hatim Muhammad ibn Idris al Razi
in Zayn al Fata fi tafsir Surat Hal ata, MS.; 5. Abd Allah ibn Ahmad
ibn Hanbal in Zawaid manaqib Amir al Muminin, MS., 6. This
tradition has also been narrated by also Ibn Mardawayh, Ibn Abd al
Barr, al Khatib al Baghdadi, Ibn al Maghazili, al-Asimi, Shiruyah al
Daylami and others from Imam Ali (AS), Salman (RA), Abu Dharr (RA),
Anas ibn Malik (RA), Jabir ibn Abd Allah (RA) and other Companions.
Al Bukhari mentions this tradition in his Sahih, "Kitab
al Jihad wa al Siyar": Sahl ibn Sad said: "The Prophet
(pbuh&hp) said on the day of (the victory of) Khaybar:
"Tomorrow I will give the standard to a man, by whose
hand God shall conquer (Khaybar). He loves God and His Messenger,
and God and His Messenger love him."Other Sunni
Refernces: 1. Muslim in his Sahih, "Kitab al-jihad wa al Siyar"
and "Kitab fada'il al Sahabah"; 2. al Tirmidhi in his Sahih, i,
218; 3. Ibn Majah in Sunan (Matba`at al Faruqi, Delhi) "bab
fada'il ashab Rasul Allah (S)"; 4. al Hakim in Mustadrak, iii,
38, 437; 5. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal in Musnad, i, 99, 133, 185,
320, iv, 51, v, 353; 6. Abu Nu`aym in Hilyat al 'awliya', i, 26,
62; 7. al Nasa'i in Khasa'is, 4, 5, 7, 8, 32; 8. al Muttaqi
in Kanz al Ummal, v, 283, 285, vi, 394, 395, 405; 9. al Haythami
in Majma al Zawa'id, vi, 150, 151, ix, 119, 123, 124; 10. Ibn
Hajar, Tahdhib al Tahdhib, vii, 337, 339; 11. al Muhibb al
Tabari, al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 185, 187, 203; 12. al Tabari,
Tarikh, ii, 300; 13. Ibn Sa`d, al Tabaqat, ii, part one, 80;
14. Ibn Abd al Barr, al Istiab (Hyderabad, 1336), ii, 450;
15. al Bayhaqi in Sunan, vi, 362. The Holy Prophet
(pbuh&hp) said: "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is
its gate; whoever intends to enter the city should come to its
gate." Sunni Refernces: 1. Al Hakim in his Mustadrak,
iii, 126, 127: 2. al Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad, ii, 348, 377; vii,
172; xi, 48, 49; 3. al Muhibb al Tabari in al Riyad al Nadirah,
ii, 193; 4. al Muttaqi in Kanz al ummal, vi, 152, 156, 401;
5. Ibn Hajar in al Sawa'iq al Muhriqah, 73; 6. al Manawi in
Kunuz al Haqaiq, 43 and Fayd al Qadir, iii, 46; 7. al Haythami,
Majma al Zawa'id, ix, 114; 8. Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, iv,
22 and Tahdhib al Tahdhib (Hyderabad, 1325), vi, 152; 9. as well
as al Uqayli, Ibn Adi and al Tabarani. Al Tirmidhi in
his Sahih reports that once when the Prophet (S) sat down to eat a
fowl that had been prepared for his dinner, he prayed to God:
"My God, bring the most beloved of Your creatures,
that he may eat this fowl with me." Then Ali (AS) came and the
Prophet ate with him.Other Sunni Refernces: 1. al
Hakim in Mustadrak, iii, 130, 131; 2. Abu Nuaym in Hilyah, vi,
339; 3. al Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad, ii, 171; 4. al Muhibb
al Tabari in al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 160, 161, and Dhakha'ir
al?-uqba, 61; 5. al Haythami in Majma al Zawa'id, ix, 125, 126;
6. al Muttaqi in Kanz al Ummal, iv, 406; 7. Ibn al Athir in
Usd al Ghabah, iv, 30. The Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp)
said: "Verily, Ali and I are inseparable, and he is the
master (wali) of every believer after me."Sunni
Refernces: 1. Al Tirmidhi, in his Sahih, ii, 297, 2. Ahmad
ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, iv, 437, v, 356; 3. Abu Dawud al
Tayalisi in his Musnad, iii, 111, xi, 360; 4. al Haythami, Majma
al Zawaid, ix, 109, 127, 128, 199; 5. al Khatib al Baghdadi,
Tarikh Baghdad, iv, 339; 6. al Muhibb al Tabari, al Riyad al
Nadirah, ii, 203, 171; 7. al Muttaqi al Hindi, Kanz al Ummal,
vi, 154, 155, 396, 401; 8. Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, v, 94;
9. Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya, vi, 294; 10. al Nasa'i,
Khasais, 19, 23; 11. as well as Ibn Abi Shaybah, al Tabari, al
Tabarani, al ?Daylami, Ibn Mardawayh, Ibn al Jawzi, al Rafii, and
Ibn Hajar. The Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) is reported to
have said to Imam Ali (AS): "Are you not pleased to
have the position (manzilah) in relation to me as that Aaron had in
relation to Moses?" Sunni Refernces: 1. Al
Bukhari in his Sahih (al Matba'at al Khayriyyah, Egypt, 1320) in
"Kitab bad' al Khalq", "Bab manaqib `Ali ibn Abi Talib" and "Bab
ghazwat Tabuk," in two places, records this tradition 2. Muslim
in his Sahih (Matba`at Bulaq, 1290), "Kitab fada'il al Sahabah,"
through three chains; 3. al Tirmidhi, in his Sahih, ii, 301;
4. Ibn Majah in his Sunan, p. 12; 5. al Hakim in Mustadrak,
ii, 337; 6. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal in Musnad, i, 29, 170, 173,
174, 175, 177, 179, 182, 184, 185; 230, iii, 338, vi, 369; 7. al
Nasa'i in Khasa'is, 4, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 32; 8. Ibn Sad in al
Tabaqat (Leiden 1322) iii, part one, 14, 15; 9. Abu Nuaym in
Hilyat al Awliya', vi, 345, vii, 194, 195, 196, viii, 307; 10.
al Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad, i, 324, iii, 288, iv, 71, 204, 382,
vii, 452, viii, 52, ix, 394, x, 43, xi, 432, xii, 323; 11. al
Tabari in his Tarikh al Umam wa al Muluk (Matbaat al Istiqamah,
Cairo, 1357), ii, 368; 12. Ibn al Athir, Usd alĀ­ghabah,
v, 8; 13. al Muttaqi al Hindi, Kanz al Ummal, iii, 154, v, 40,
vi, 154, 188, 395, 402, 404, 405, viii, 215; 14. al Haythami,
Majma al Zawa'id, ix, 109, 110, 111, 119; 15. al Muhibb al
Tabari, in al Riyad al Nadirah, i, 13, ii, 162, 163, 164, 175, 195,
203 and Dhakha'ir al Uqba, 120. The Holy Prophet
(pbuh&hp) said: "Whoever contests Ali in regard to
the khilafah is an unbeliever."Sunni
Refernces: 1. Ibn al Maghazili in his Manaqib (Tehran), p.45,
from Abu Dharr al Ghifari, 2. Allamah Ayni Hyderabadi in Manaqib
Sayyidina Ali (Alam Press, Charminar), p.52, from al Khatib al
Khwarazmi and Ibn al Maghazili. Al Nasa'i in Khasa'is,
40, reports this tradition on the authority of Abu Said al
Khudri: Abu Said al Khudri reports: "We sat waiting for the
Messenger of Allah (pbuh&hp) when he came out to meet us. The
strap of his sandal was broken and he tossed it to Ali. Then he
(pbuh&hp) said: "A man amongst you will fight the people
over the tawil (interpretation) of the Quran in the same way
as I have fought over its tanzil (revelation)."
Thereupon Abu Bakr said, 'Is that I?' The Prophet (pbuh&hp)
said: "No." Then Umar asked him, 'Is that I?'
"No." said the Prophet (pbuh&hp). "It is the
mender of the sandal (i.e. Ali)."Other Sunni
References: 1. al Hakim in Mustadrak, iii, 122; 2. Ahmad ibn
Hanbal in his Musnad, iii, 33, 82; 3. Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al
Awliya', i, 67; 4. Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, iii, 282, iv,
33; 5. Ibn Hajar, al Isabah, i, 22, iv, 152; 6. Ibn Abd al
Barr, al lsti`ab, ii, 423; 7. al Haythami, Majma al Zawa'id, v,
186; 8. al Muttaqi, Kanz al Ummal, vi, 155, 390, 391.
The Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) said: "May God's
mercy be upon Ali. My God, keep the Haqq (truth, righteousness,
justice) always with Ali." Sunni Refernces: 1.
Sahih Al Tirmidhi, ii, 298: 2. al Hakim in Mustadrak, iii, 119,
124; 3. al Khatib in Ta'rikh Baghdad, xiv, 321; 4. al
Haythami in Majma` al Zawa'id, vii, 134, 235; 243; 5. al Muttaqi
in Kanz al Ummal, vi, 157. The Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp)
said: "The parable of my Ahl Al?bayt is that of the boat of
Noah, whoever gets aboard it is saved and whoever stays away from it
is drowned."Sunni References: 1. Al Hakim in his
Mustadrak, ii, 343, iii, 150: 2. Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya',
iv, 306; 3. al Khatib in Ta'rikh Baghdad, xii, 19; 4. al
Suyuti in al Durr al Manthur (al-Matba`at al Maymaniyyah, Egypt,
1314), under verse 2:58; 5. al Muttaqi in Kanz al Ummal, i, 250,
vi, 216; 6. al Haythami in Majma` al Zawa'id, ix, 167, 168;
7. al Muhibb al Tabari in Dhakha'ir al Uqba, 20; al Manawi in
Kunuz al?Haqa'iq, 132. http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/islam/0000156.phpOther
good sites to read on Maula Ali A.S. www.al-islam.org/ghadirhttp://www.al-islam.org/nahj/
Last edited by Texan_Dude : Apr 24th, 2005 at 08:05 PM. |
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Apr
24th, 2005, 08:17 PM |
#2 |
The unReal king Bu Abdullah
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Kingdom of Bahrain
Posts: 10,763 |
the first and second are really doubtful.... they cud be
classified as false, rejected ahadith.... their content shows
that they r far from truth.... i have never heard of any of those
books that u have mentioned....
the fourth one (Ali being the
gate) is popular and is classified as dhaeef (weak) and also mawdhoo
(false) hadith by the scholars of hadith....
the one about
Ali (ra) beign hkalifa appears very weak and unauthentic.... as
does the the last one....
may Allah be pleased with
Ali (ra) who believed in Allah and His Prophet (saw) and struggled
with all his might for the pleasure of Allah and led an exemplary
life.... and may Allah guide those who, due to his greatness,
tend to lift him so high that they transgress the limits of
Islam.... |
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Apr
25th, 2005, 02:43 AM |
#4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,026 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Texan_Dude
"Whoever wishes to see Adam in
his knowledge, Noah in his piety, Abraham in his forbearance,
Moses in his strength, and Jesus in his worship and devotion
should look at Ali ibn Abi
Talib." | Ibn al Jawzi
(d.597H) said: "A fabricated hadith." (Kitab al Mawduat 1/p.277);
likewise al Suyuti (d.911H) includes it his collection of fabricated
hadith, La'ali al Masnua (1/p.325); as does al Shawkani (d.1250H) in
his al Fawaid al Majmua (#1097)
Quote:
"Fourteen thousand years before
Adam, upon whom be peace, was created, I and Ali were a light
in the presence of God. When God created Adam, upon whom be
peace, He divided it into two parts. I am one of the parts and
Ali is the other
part." | I believe al
Dhahabi rejects the hadith in his Mizan al Itidal.. i'll look into
it if and when I find my copy... certainly the version that reads,
"I and Ali were created from a light and we were by the right side
of al Arsh a thousand years prior to Allah creating Adam..." is an
outright fabrication as confirmed by Ibn al Jawzi in Kitab al
Mawduat (1/p.254); by al Suyuti in La'ali al Masnua (1/p.294); and
al Shawkani in al Fawaid al Majmua (#1077);
Quote:
"My God, bring the most beloved
of Your creatures, that he may eat this fowl with me." Then
Ali (AS) came and the Prophet ate with
him. | Again, listed in
al Shawkani's work on fabricated hadith, al Fawaid al Majmua
(#1132), where he also replied to al Hakim's authentication by
saying, "Numerous people of knowledge opposed him in that";
Muhaddith al Albani called the hadith "weak" in his Daif Sunan al
Tirmidhi (#773); and it is also cited by al Tabarani in his Mu'jam
al Kabir and by al Bazzar in his Musand to which Hafiz al Haythami
(d.807H) said, "It contains Ismail ibn Salman and he is abandoned
[in hadith]" and in another chain in Mu'jam al Kabir there was a
narrator unknown to him (Majma al Zawaid, #14726+)
Quote:
"Verily, Ali and I are
inseparable, and he is the master (wali) of every believer
after me." | Of course,
wilaya here doesn't denote succesorship or khilafah... walaya is a
common denominator among all believers beginning with Allah's walaya
as per, "Allah is the wali of those who believe" (Qur'an 2:257) and
then also, "Only Allah is your wali and His Messenger and those who
believe..." (5:55) and finally, "The believers, men and women, are
awliya one of another..." (9:71)
Quote:
"Are you not pleased to have
the position (manzilah) in relation to me as that Aaron had in
relation to Moses?" | Of
course, Harun (as) didn't succeed Musa (as)
Quote:
"Whoever contests Ali in regard
to the khilafah is an unbeliever."
Sunni
Refernces: 1. Ibn al Maghazili in his Manaqib (Tehran),
p.45, from Abu Dharr al Ghifari, 2. Allamah Ayni Hyderabadi
in Manaqib Sayyidina Ali (Alam Press, Charminar), p.52, from
al Khatib al Khwarazmi and Ibn al
Maghazili | These are not
primary hadith sources by any stretch of the imagination with the
second reference relying partly on the first. I'd be surprised if
they even mention an isnad for this undoubtedly spurious
report.
Quote:
"May God's mercy be upon Ali.
My God, keep the Haqq (truth, righteousness, justice) always
with Ali." | Part of a
longer hadith which in fact begins with the words, "May Allah have
mercy on Abu Bakr, he married his daughter to me and accompanied me
to the land of migration..." Nevertheless, the chain of
transmission contains al Mukhtar ibn Nafi about whom al Bukhari
said, "Rejected in hadith" and Ibn Hibban said, "He brings rejected
reports [supposedly] on the authority of well known narrators."
(cited in al Manawi's Fayd al Qadir, #4412)
Quote:
"The parable of my Ahl Al?bayt
is that of the boat of Noah, whoever gets aboard it is saved
and whoever stays away from it is
drowned." | al Dhahabi
confirmed the weakness of al Hakim's chain because of Mufadhal bin
Salih who is "rejected in hadith" according to al Bukhari; the
various chains recorded by al Tabarani rely on Abdullah ibn Dahir
and al Hasan ibn Abi Ja'far both of whom are "abandoned", or on
Abdullah ibn Abd al Qudus who is adjudged weak by numerous hadith
scholars, or the chains contain groups of unknown reporters as
stated by al Haythami in his Majma al Zawa'id (#14,981); al Bazzar's
report from Ibn Zubair contains Ibn Lahiyya, a well-known weak
narrator; a similar report from Anas ibn Malik contains Aban ibn Abi
Ayash who is accused of fabricating hadith... etc. etc. |
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Apr
25th, 2005, 03:02 AM |
#5 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 14 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armughal
the first and second are really
doubtful.... they cud be classified as false, rejected
ahadith.... their content shows that they r far from
truth.... i have never heard of any of those books that u
have mentioned | Hmm the
contents of the hadith shows they are far from the trust... let me
quote you the first hadith again Mr. "Whoever wishes to see
Adam in his knowledge, Noah in his piety, Abraham in his
forbearance, Moses in his strength, and Jesus in his worship and
devotion should look at Ali ibn Abi Talib."Care to tell
me aside from Prophet Mohammad who was most knowledgeable person
during his time.... You doubt on his knowledge read Najul
Balagah... http://www.al-islam.org/nahj/Imam Jaffar -e-
Sadiq his grand kids and the sixth Imam of shias he was so
knowledgabe that one of his student is known as father of
chemistry. Nauzubillah if Hazrat Ali A.S was not Pious...why
did Holy Prophet MOhammad P.B.U.H. chose him over other companions
when it came to curse on liars in Mubahila..... Tell me who was
the most bravest during the time of Prophet MOhammad P.B.U.H. who
was the only person who stood up against Umar Ibe Abuwad in battle
of Khandaq..who was fataheh Khyber....and you doubt on his
strength? Now tell me wasn't Hazrat Ali A.S. one of the best when
it comes to woship and devotion.... who are you to say the hadith of
Prophet Mohammad is far from truth....what right do you
have...????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armughal
and may Allah guide those who,
due to his greatness, tend to lift him so high that they
transgress the limits of
Islam.... | I don't agree with
Nusairee taking Hazrat Ali A.S. as God, but I do remember in one of
your post in one of the threads you accussed shia of raising Hazrat
Ali A.S. than his actual rank.... I asked a question which
apparently you ignored and hoping this time you might have the
courtesy to reply or defend your accusations. I asked you
what is the actual rank... shias don't take Hazrat Ali A.S. as
God.... he himself prayed and asked to pray for Allah SWT and was
therefore killed in the mosque..... and also Hazrat Ali A.S. is on a
higher rank than us... He was awarded sword from Allah SWT, no
other companion of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. nor us were blessed
with such a honor. He was born in Qaba. He was the only one to
stand up against Umar Ibne Abduwad in the battle of Khandaq. He
was chosen by Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. over other companions in
Mubhaila when it was asked to curse on liars.... "Tomorrow
I will give the standard to a man, by whose hand God shall conquer
(Khaybar). He loves God and His Messenger, and God and His Messenger
love him."The hadith above which apparently you had no
objection too. doesn't it tell how highly ranked he was.... Now
tell me whats the actual rank of Prophet Like I said shias don't
claim them to be Allah or Prophet and he was alot better than us our
Imam...but where do you draw this line to accuse shias of giving him
higher rank? Also care to shed light on why was hadith four
ruled out to be daheef?????? |
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Apr
25th, 2005, 06:13 AM |
#6 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 46 |
[Also care to shed light on why was hadith four ruled out to be
daheef??????]
Because Azam Tariq said so.
Seriously?
If muslims agree to these hadiths then the whole drama of safiqah
will be exposed. Muslims can not find hidiths like this for any
other sahaba so it is much easier for muslims to declare any ahdith
that raises Ali A.s status higher than other sahaba a daheef or
doubtful. However muslims will go extra 100 miles to believe any
hadith narrated by any tom dick and harry regarding other sahaba.
Read any of the sahih yourself.
Muslims think that Ali A.s
need their approval. Let them think like that. |
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Apr
25th, 2005, 08:14 AM |
#7 |
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,421 |
Texan_Dude and MAKRANI Muslims Love and
Respect Hazrat Ali(ra) due to his great services for Islam. He was
one of the most closet copmapion of Prophet (pbuh). There are
many "Sahih" Hadith regarding Hazrat Ali. But at the same
time we can not ignore the efforts of Many other Companion who spent
life with prophet and seved Islam to a great deal.
Quote:
may Allah be pleased with
Ali (ra) who believed in Allah and His Prophet (saw) and
struggled with all his might for the pleasure of Allah and led
an exemplary life.... and may Allah guide those who,
due to his greatness, tend to lift him so high that they
transgress the limits of
Islam.... | Ameen. May
Allah guide us to the Path of Prophet and Hazrat
Ali (ra) and the rightious compnions |
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Apr
25th, 2005, 10:15 AM |
#8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 6,860 |
nice thread so many references Bhai
Texan aap ne to jo bhi .... jahan se bhi pharra ghalat hi phrra.
Allah raham karay. |
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Apr
25th, 2005, 12:26 PM |
#9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 620 |
I have been at gupshup for over 5 years now and seen so many
identical threads come and go without serving much
purpose.
Rather than indulging in these arguments of circular
nature, people interested in real learning should make an effort of
get hold of some of Imam Ali's words. Just read some of the reviews
on Nahjul Balagha at Amazon dot com! Its such a shame to see us
muslims taking part in these silly- i am the 'righteous' one- games
while others are actually reading/learning/applying words of the
great Imam to their lives. |
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Apr
25th, 2005, 09:57 PM |
#10 |
Assan Tay Jana-ye
Malo-Mall
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,964 |
Paglu....Why is it that we need to read Nahjul Balagha? Is it
going to teach me something that Quran cannot? If the answer is no,
than, I dont need to read it to gain knowledge about Islam or to
learn about the greatness of Ali :ra: |
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Apr
25th, 2005, 10:32 PM |
#11 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 32 |
"Fourteen thousand years before Adam, upon whom be peace, was
created, I and Ali were a light in the presence of God. When God
created Adam, upon whom be peace, He divided it into two parts. I am
one of the parts and Ali is the other part."
Very
intresting.
i dont know why people wants to make prophet
muhmmed(SAWW) made of lite, I meet one man he went beyond you people
he said Prophet Muhmmad (SAWW) was not human he was ALLAH him self
came on earth in man shape(unawzobella)
Last edited by asayb : Apr 25th, 2005 at 10:38
PM. |
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Apr
25th, 2005, 11:08 PM |
#12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 794 |
Actually the
above was meant for Ali (RA), but to make it more palatable, Prophet
(PBUH) was put in this place...again Naoozobillah... |
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Apr
25th, 2005, 11:33 PM |
#13 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 325 |
LOL, you wanna gather all Nasibis in one post, Just start a
post praising Ali (a.s). Strange and funny thing is, they deny thier
own highly esteemed history text in the hatred of Ali (as) and his
progeny.
Muslim in his Sahih narrated on the authority of Zirr
that: Ali (RA) said: By him who split up
the seed and created something living, the Apostle (may peace and blessing be upon
him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love
me, and none but a hypocrite would
nurse grudge against me.- Sahih Muslim, English
version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Code_Red
Texan_Dude and MAKRANI
Muslims Love and Respect Hazrat Ali(ra) due to his great
services for Islam. He was one of the most closet copmapion of
Prophet (pbuh).
There are many "Sahih" Hadith
regarding Hazrat Ali.
But at the same time we can
not ignore the efforts of Many other Companion who spent life
with prophet and seved Islam to a great deal.
Ameen.
May Allah guide us to the Path of Prophet and Hazrat Ali (ra)
and the rightious
compnions | sounds like you are
defending something?? whats that?? You wrote there are many
sahih hadith redarding Hz. Ali (a.s). Care to share at least
five of them. May Allah (swt) give you Ajjar for that.
(but make sure you get'em approved from armughal and gupguppy first,
other wise it seems thier obsession to declare every hadith which
contains Ali's (a.s) name in it or prais him false, daeef or
fabricated would taunt you as well) Best of Luck!! And
yes let me repeat after you with a lil diference. May Allah keep us to the Path of Prophet and Hazrat Ali
( a.s) and the righteous compnions.
Ameen! The Messenger of Allah said: " Every prophet
was given by God seven righteous companions. I was given
fourteen righteous companions". He included in them Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husain,
Hamza, Ja'far, Ammar Ibn Yasir, Abu Dhar, Miqdad, and
Salman. Sunni references: - Fada'il al-Sahaba,
by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, Traditions #109, #277 - Sahih
al-Tirmidhi, v5, p329, p662 - Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1,
pp88,148,149 from several chain of narrators - al-Kabir, by
al-Tabarani, v6, p264, p265 - Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym,
v1, p128 But guess what?, the above two ahadith are also
daeef, false or fabricated, are'nt they
Last edited by zer01 : Apr 26th, 2005 at 12:22
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Apr
26th, 2005, 12:08 AM |
#14 |
Assan Tay Jana-ye
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And God said, that only dimanted people will equate humans to
the level of Hazrat Muhammad and Allah. He
further said that people who commit shirk in such a manner are the
biggest munafiqs. Ponder on that for a minute, Mr. Zero brain. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 12:17 AM |
#15 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 325 |
^ OOOoouuuuch!! lagta hey zara zor see lag gayee |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 08:08 AM |
#16 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 14 |
Zer01, Is it amazing you give these people hadith from
your book they would reject saying its from a shia source... you
show them the same hadith from their authentic books... not one but
several books... they will rule it out..... This one time I was at
this sunni mosque close to my work and ran into this black American
who was talking about how much unrest is in the world.. and when I
told him it seems like its time for Imam Mahdi A,S, and told him
that one of the sign of him coming is there would be a lunar and
solar eclipse in one month, eventhough he didn't know I am a shia he
asked me is this from a shia source, I asked him why? he told me he
read about this sign in shia books but not in sunni books... and it
was skeptical to him.... and when I asked him y would he doubt a
shia source when Imam Hanafi, Maliki, Shafai...they all came years
after Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. you would trust their souces and our
Imam was there with the Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H, you would doubt
that... he didn't have any thing to say even though he said he
studies islam for 30 years. Posted by
gupguppy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Verily,
Ali and I are inseparable, and he is the master (wali) of every
believer after me." Of course, wilaya here doesn't denote
succesorship or khilafah... walaya is a common denominator among all
believers beginning with Allah's walaya as per, "Allah is the wali
of those who believe" (Qur'an 2:257) and then also, "Only Allah is
your wali and His Messenger and those who believe..." (5:55) and
finally, "The believers, men and women, are awliya one of
another..."
(9:71) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Isnt
the first path of the hadith enough to support what He is meant...
Holy Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. said I and Ali are inseperable... now
read the later part of the hadith and tell me doesn't it fit the
context.... and the ayat you quoted you probably missed the later
part let me quote the whole ayat for you.... Only Allah is
your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up
prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.5:55Incase
you missed it.. the ayat didn't stop at Allah and Prophet .. it also
talks about people who keep their prayer and pay poor-rate while
they bow...now tell me who was the person who gave zakat while in
the rukooh...the time the ayat was revealed. Paglu, I hear
your point and agree with you...but how about commenting come
forward and post some knowledgeable sermons and lessons, it might
help people like Armugahl..who doubts the fact on Hazrat Ali A.S.
knowledge is far from truth;... Originally posted by
Kaleem ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Paglu....Why
is it that we need to read Nahjul Balagha? Is it going to teach me
something that Quran cannot? If the answer is no, than, I dont need
to read it to gain knowledge about Islam or to learn about the
greatness of Ali
:ra: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kaleem
why do you go to Dr, when you are sick..why do you send your kids to
school....why not just teach them quran..quran doesn't stop you from
seeking knowledge, Prophet asked to acquire knowledge even if you
have to go to china for it.... Reading the book is not all about
learning the greatness of Hazrat Ali, it has a lot of
knowledge..lessons, way of life to offer, i heard it shows a good
system of governmetn.. but how sad..others besides us benefit from
such knowledge. Originally Posted by
Asayb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i
dont know why people wants to make prophet muhmmed(SAWW) made of
lite, I meet one man he went beyond you people he said Prophet
Muhmmad (SAWW) was not human he was ALLAH him self came on earth in
man
shape(unawzobella) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Asayb..
the light means Noor..... its not the light you have at your
house... and the later part watever you said about Prophet being
Allah care to give references..sounds like all the other rumors you
have posted int he forum without any proper
references.Originally Posted by
Kaleem ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ And
God said, that only dimanted people will equate humans to the level
of Hazrat Muhammad and Allah. He
further said that people who commit shirk in such a manner are the
biggest munafiqs. Ponder on that for a minute, Mr. Zero
brain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A
good example of how rumors spread... Mr. Asayb said something shias
don't believe..nor did he backed up his statement withouth
refernces...and Kaleem..withouth asking for any proper references...
blamed us for commiting shirk..even though no shia here said or
accepted the false accusation Asayb made... Asayb do you know you
have to answer to Allah SWT... From what I have noticed you take
religous discussions so lightly and are so good at spreading
rumors.. do you realize how many people are out there spreading
rumors and people like who just hear and believe it... and go on a
rage of killing innocent shias that had nothing to do on it to start
with...even though killing innocent was never a teaching or sunnah
of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. May Allah give you ajjar for your deeds
... Ameen. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 09:48 AM |
#17 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 118 |
It goes again............................ Can we just think
on something that is more important and will be questioned on the
day of judgement.
To me it all is going on for last 1300
years and will continue until the end of times. Its like the similar
discussion, when Changaze Khan was just few miles away from Baghdad
and the people in Baghdad were discussing that if the crow is Hallal
or Haram. We as muslim have more urgent issues to deal with.
and yet we are busy with these discussion. I am not saying
that it is not good to discuss but from your heart can you think
that what was discussed by the big scholers and they did not get to
an agreement how can we do that with our little
knowledge.
Imam Jafar Sadiq and Imam Abu Hanifa were working
on Fiqha in the same time period and yet there was no Sunni Shia
match like this, Are we not going towards more rigid
thoughts........... |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 03:53 PM |
#18 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 472 |
I don't think Sunnis hate Ali, they just seem to have a grudge
against him. It's not suprising. We can see it by thier animalistic
actions in Iraq against innocent
people. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 08:12 PM |
#19 |
Assan Tay Jana-ye
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,964 |
Texn_Dude and Zerobrain, give it a rest. Dude, I dont need to
see a proof of your "jahliyat", I saw the original title of the
thread. I dont need to see your refrences, I can see the blind
advocation for your lost cause from your posts. For the hundreth
time to you and all Shia's. Hazrat Ali(r.a) was a simple human
being, just like you and I, he was only special becuase of his
deeds. He was a companion of Hazrat Muhammad , nothing
more. He needs to be remebered in a way that honors his bravery,
wisdom and steadfastness to the cause of Allah. Not by equating him
to a status of unfathombale being (which he clearly was not), do not
try to tell the world that he was the only correct way to Islam
after Prophet Muhammad , because the
only correct way of Islam after our beloved prophet has been and
always will be Quarn. Therefore, I urge you and every other shia to
stop telling us that you are special because you can trace your
lineage to Hazrat Ali(which I seriously doubt), becasue Allah has
said in the Quran that only your "Amal" make you special...it does
not matter if you are related to Hazrat Mahammd or not. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 08:13 PM |
#20 |
Assan Tay Jana-ye
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Join Date: Mar 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
masterofall240
I don't think Sunnis hate Ali,
they just seem to have a grudge against him. It's not
suprising. We can see it by thier animalistic actions in Iraq
against innocent
people. | Yeah you should
know, you like to jump fences and change nicks at the drop of the
hat, so How are you going to creat more fitna among the Muslims next
time? |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 09:34 PM |
#21 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 472 |
LOL, I have never changed any nicks, and you Sunnis expect us
to take you seriously? and you pulled the fitna card. LMAO. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:03 PM |
#22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,026 |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:04 PM |
#23 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 325 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kaleem
Texn_Dude and Zerobrain, give
it a rest. Dude, I dont need to see a proof of your
"jahliyat", I saw the original title of the
thread. I dont need to see your
refrences, I can see the blind advocation for
your lost cause from your posts. For the
hundreth time to you and all Shia's.
| LOL, you
just reminded me of a Hadith:Some of
the companions used to say:"We recognized the hypocrites by their
hatred of Ali."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kaleem
Hazrat Ali(r.a) was a simple
human being, just like you and I, he was only special becuase
of his deeds. | Sorry son! Abubaker and Aisha seem not agree with
you.A'ishah
said: "I saw my father (Abu Bakr)
gazing often at Ali's face. I said: O my father! I see you gazing
often at Ali's face. He said: O my daughter! I heard the Prophet
say: "Looking at the face of Ali is
worship."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kaleem
He was a companion of Hazrat
Muhammad ,
nothing more. He needs to be remebered in a
way that honors his bravery, wisdom and steadfastness
to the cause of Allah. Not by equating him to a status of
unfathombale being (which he clearly was not),
| Again son!
Umal Momaneen Aisha would highly disagree with you:Ibn Hajar narrates from A'ishah that
the Prophet said: "The best
of my brothers is Ali, the best of my paternal uncles is Hamzah,
and remembrance of Ali and speaking about him is worship."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kaleem
do not try to tell the world
that he was the only correct way to Islam after Prophet
Muhammad ,
because the only correct way of Islam after our beloved
prophet has been and always will be Quarn.
| Thats
Obvious and LAME as well! Why is it so that every time when shia
bring sunnah (hadith) to prove them selves, you people start whining
with the claim that Quran alone is there for your guidence? (reminds
me about this one companion who said Quran is enogh for us on the
Prophets death bed, but thats another topic)
BTW, Do you even know whats
written in Quran. Let me quote an ayah which brother Texan_Dude
posted above:Only Allah is your Vali
and His
Messenger and those who believe, those who
keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they
bow.5:55The Messenger of Allah said: "Ali is with Quran, and Quran is with Ali. They
shall not separate from each other till they both return to me by
the Pool (of Paradise)." Now son, Ponder!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kaleem
Therefore, I urge you and
every other shia to stop telling us that you are special
because you can trace your lineage to Hazrat Ali(which I
seriously doubt), | Another proof of your Jihalat! not every shia is
Syed. oh, and yes the shias are way too special, cause Rasool
(saww) said so:The
Messenger of Allah said: "He who
loves me and loves these two: al-Hasan and
al-Husain, and loves their father and
mother, he will be with me in Paradise."
Do you love any person mentioned
in above hadith as we SHIA do?The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Glad tiding O
Ali! Verily you and your companions and your Shia (followers) will
be in Paradise." The Messenger
of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "The Shia of Ali are the real
victorious in the day of resurrection/rising"
In Quran Allah
sys:One day We
shall call every group of people by their respective Imams.
(Quran 17:71) Atleas we
have our A'ima (Imam's Plural if you dont know) to follow to, who
are the progeny of Allah's (swt) best Prophet Mohammed (saww). And
first Imam of them is Ali (a.s). TELL ME SON, WHO IS YOUR IMAM? WHO WILL REPRESENT YOU
ON THE DAY OF QIYAMAH?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kaleem
becasue Allah has said in
the Quran that only your "Amal" make you special...it does not
matter if you are related to Hazrat Mahammd or
not. | Oh please enlighten us which ayah of quran says so. But
if you cant bring any ayah let me tell you one:"(O Prophet) tell (people) I don't
ask you any wage (in return for my prophethood) except to love my near kin. And if anyone earns any good We shall give Him an
increase of good (in return for it)" (Quran
42:23). Ibn Abbas
narrated: When the above verse
(42:23) was revealed, the companions asked: "O' the Messenger of
Allah! Who are those near kin whose love Allah has made
obligatory for us?" Upon that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said:
"Ali, Fatimah, and their two sons." He (PBUH&HF)
repeated this sentence thrice. Then the Prophet (PBUH&HF)
continued: "Verily Allah has dedicated my wage (of prophethood)
to love of my Ahlul-Bayt, and I shall question you about it on the
day of judgment." many a sunni
scholers (and I mean sunni not nasibi) have sited above
tredition in thier authentic work.At the end, you can call me names or
what ever, believe me I dont care. But son!, I still wish and pray
that Allah (swt) put some love of Ali (a.s) and his offspring in
your heart.
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:05 PM |
#24 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 472 |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:05 PM |
#25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,026 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zer01
The Messenger of Allah
said: " Every prophet was given by God seven
righteous companions. I was given fourteen righteous
companions". He included in them Ali,
al-Hasan, al-Husain, Hamza,
Ja'far, Ammar Ibn Yasir, Abu Dhar, Miqdad, and
Salman. Sunni references: - Fada'il
al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, Traditions #109, #277 -
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p329, p662 - Musnad Ahmad Ibn
Hanbal, v1, pp88,148,149 from several chain of narrators -
al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, v6, p264, p265 - Hilyatul
Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v1, p128 But guess what?, the
above two ahadith are also daeef, false or fabricated, are'nt
they | actually,
there's no need to bother looking into its authenticity just yet
since this citation typifies shi-ite deception, bias and
dishonesty... thats because the "fourteen righteous companions"
listed in the report includes Abu Bakr and Umar! i wonder why our
shi-ite copy-and-paste merchants forgot to mention that!? |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:08 PM |
#26 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 472 |
The only deceptive people are the sunnis who like to kill
people in the mosques. Shias are known by their high character. A
sunni could've never founded Pakistan. it's in the sunni religion to
kill innocent people. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:12 PM |
#27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,026 |
^ LMAO... the evidence against you is in the post just above
;-) |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:13 PM |
#28 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 472 |
LOL, Sorry Shias don't kill people in mosques. That's an
entirely Sunni characteristic. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:17 PM |
#29 |
Assan Tay Jana-ye
Malo-Mall
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,964 |
anhey zero insaan, lannat hai tery mung per key tu apni jihalat
ka muzhahira kar raha hai....I have said repeatedly show me your
lame ass proof from Quran. Tub tum saab ki bolti band ho jati
hai.....You have no proof of your lost cause and your ill founded
belief in supremacy of Hazrat Ali...he was just a human like you and
I...nothing more and nothing less. Him being cousin of Prophet
Muhammad does not give
him any more rank in Allah's eyes than Abu Bakr or Umar or Usman. If
you cannot understand the simplest of logic (islamic logic) than I
cannot help you...No wonder your nick is zero. You really are one
big fat zero. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:19 PM |
#30 |
Assan Tay Jana-ye
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,964 |
masterofall, you asked for it dude. I will be happy to reveal
your other nicks and posts ...just say so. BTW, you better watch out
we sunnis are coming to whoop your shia
ass. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:20 PM |
#31 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 472 |
Go for it cowardly sunni. plus i find it hilarious when jews
kill you lowly sunni asses. my jewish friend had a fun time killing
your ugly kind in iraq.
Last edited by masterofall240 : Apr 26th, 2005 at 11:28 PM. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:21 PM |
#32 |
Assan Tay Jana-ye
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Join Date: Mar 2000
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420 I am not sunni, I am wahabi, and do ask your elders how you
should address me? You know the
wahabis whooping your lowly shia ass in Saudi .... |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:21 PM |
#33 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 472 |
sunni, wahabi, all the same hateful people who kill innocent
people. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:23 PM |
#34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,026 |
^ LMAO... this is the kind of reply one can expect from someone
whose ran out of copy-and-paste sources to blindly lift his
arguments from... |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:24 PM |
#35 |
Assan Tay Jana-ye
Malo-Mall
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,964 |
420, Awww...your feelings got hurt... and you profess your love
for Hazrat Umar and other companions in your Marsiaha quite
eloquently... |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:25 PM |
#36 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 472 |
LMAO Sunni monkeys posting with nothing in thier post. you
monkeys are getting boring. |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:36 PM |
#37 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 325 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kaleem
anhey zero insaan, lannat hai
tery mung per key tu apni jihalat ka muzhahira kar raha
hai....I have said repeatedly show me your lame ass proof from
Quran. Tub tum saab ki bolti band ho jati hai.....You have no
proof of your lost cause and your ill founded belief in
supremacy of Hazrat Ali...he was just a human like you and
I...nothing more and nothing less. Him being cousin of Prophet
Muhammad
does not give him any more rank in Allah's eyes than Abu Bakr
or Umar or Usman. If you cannot understand the simplest of
logic (islamic logic) than I cannot help you...No wonder your
nick is zero. You really are one big fat
zero. | Now you are showing
your true nasibi face son. let me repeat what I
posted above. You can call me names or what ever, believe me
I dont care. But son!, I still wish and pray that Allah (swt) put
some love of Ali (a.s) and his offspring in your heart. Cause that
the condition to enter in jannah (as I proved from Quran and
Hadith in my above post) |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:43 PM |
#38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,026 |
^ actually, i think the only thing you've proven so far is your
dishonesty when quoting hadith... or partially quoting them should i
say, leaving out what refutes your argument! ;-) either that or you
are copy-and-pasting blindly not knowing what the hadiths actually
say... a little honesty won't do you any
arm |
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Apr
26th, 2005, 11:52 PM |
#39 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 325 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gupguppy
^ actually, i think the only
thing you've proven so far is your dishonesty when quoting
hadith... or partially quoting them should i say, leaving out
what refutes your argument! ;-) either that or you are
copy-and-pasting blindly not knowing what the hadiths actually
say... a little honesty won't do you any
arm | "COME, LET US CALL OUR
SONS AND YOUR SONS AND OUR WOMEN AND YOUR WOMEN AND OURSELVES AND
YOURELVES , THEN LET US HUMBLY PRAY ( TO OUR
LORD ) AND INVOKE THE CURSE OF
ALLAH UPON THE
LIARS". (Quran 3:61)Come lets
pray and say ameen to that ayah and
dua!Code_Red, still waiting for your reply
and some authentic ahadith from your side with reference.
Last edited by zer01 : Apr 27th, 2005 at 12:22
AM. |
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Apr
27th, 2005, 12:15 AM |
#40 |
Assan Tay Jana-ye
Malo-Mall
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,964 |
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zer01
Now you are showing your true
nasibi face son.
let me repeat what I posted
above.
You can call me names or what ever, believe me I
dont care. But son!, I still wish and pray that Allah (swt)
put some love of Ali (a.s) and his offspring in your heart.
Cause that the condition to enter in jannah (as I proved
from Quran and Hadith in my above
post) | I am not your
son, you munafiq |
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